The first rebuttal asks if legal protections for veganism as a belief would force others to become vegan. Consider swapping the belief system for a religion: Would legal protections for Mormons force others to become Mormon? See how silly that sounds?
Legal protections for Mormons, along with every other established religion, exist in the U.S. for a good reason. Freedom of Religion is an important right that even most atheists can get behind. It establishes that no individual can be forced to adopt the beliefs of the state and that each individual is free to have their own worldview and religious practices, except for physical abuse of any kind, not protected on religious grounds.
These protections ensure that people are also protected from discrimination. If someone is an observant Muslim serving a prison sentence, the law would have to observe their religious beliefs about eating pork. It would be against the law to force a Muslim prisoner to eat pork. Legally, the prison would have to provide non-pork options. (I am no lawyer, but it seems this would be true.)
I would like to see the same respect given to vegans, who do not belong to an established, organized belief system, but very much equal the sentiment in regards to moral beliefs and practices. I don't want to join a religion just to have the same protections as one who belongs to a religion. I see my belief that "animals are not food" as being equal to the Jewish Kosher Laws, Muslim Halal, Mormons' beliefs regarding coffee and alcohol, etc.
Thank you for your comment. I appreciated it because it raises a valuable question about belief systems and legal protections. Just out of curiosity, do you think ethical veganism deserves the same kind of legal respect as religious dietary restrictions, like keeping Kosher or Halal? I ask because, for many of us, “animals are not food” isn’t just a preference, it’s a deeply held moral conviction. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Yes, I 100% believe it should get the same respect as Kosher and Halal beliefs. Because it is a moralistic belief. Which should fall under the same category as religious protections. Meaning, I don't have the right to push my ideology on you, but you must respect my right to have a different moral belief system than you. I don't know how this could work without a legally recognized belief system, though. I've thought about this before. Wondered if I were to convert to Buddhism or some other religion that promotes the abstinence of meat, I would be protected. But it just seems so silly, and also disrespectful, to do something like that.
Absolutely agree with your thoughtful take. Ethical veganism is a deeply held moral belief, and it deserves the same respect and legal protections as other belief systems like Kosher or Halal. You are right, it is not about pushing beliefs on others, but about securing the right to live in alignment with your conscience. I appreciate your honesty about not wanting to use religion as a loophole. That shows real integrity. Hopefully, the law continues to evolve to reflect that moral convictions, even outside of traditional religion, matter just as much.
Thank you for your reply, sharing your thoughts, and engaging in this helpful discussion! I can see it happening one day. The ironic thing is, I don't like labels or identity politics. But I always say, I adopt the "vegan" label only because I have to cut to the chase with people, so they know where I stand (usually it's more like "where I sit," since I'm almost always at a restaurant when this has to happen 😆).
That’s a fair point. Veganism can be deeply personal without becoming a dogma. For many, it’s about conscience and compassion, not identity or ideology. The more we keep the focus on kindness and sustainability, the more inclusive the movement becomes.
Yes, veganism should be a protected belief because it's ethical and evidence-based, unlike your fantasy that humans need animal foods. We get B12 without killing anyone. You get yours from supplements in animal feed. Enjoy your irony with that steak.
No society had electric cars either, until we knew better. Tradition isn't proof of truth. Modern diets require B12 because soil is depleted and animals are supplemented first. Vegans just skip the middleman. If you can meet all needs without killing, why wouldn’t you? Ethics evolve.
I reached the conclusion many years ago that veganism, for most of us, constitutes a deeply-held spiritual belief, and needs to be a legally protected belief system, and have gone as far as working to write a sort of founding document delineating the philosophical/spiritual basis for such an identity. I concluded that it would need to be registered as a religious organization in the United States in order to be properly protected, and have explored that process, but eventually concluded that religion seems to be one of the fundamental driving forces of all the hatred and violence in the world, and a religious identity might likely make vegans the target of evangelical ("Christian") violence.
Thank you for sharing such a powerful and deeply considered perspective. I'm really intrigued by your idea of a founding document for veganism as a protected belief. Do you think there's a way to secure those legal protections without tying veganism to a religious label, maybe as an ethical or philosophical system instead?
I don't know if legal protections could be secured without categorizing those beliefs as a religion. Religion has a sort of privileged place in our constitution, a sort of magical untouchable status. Perhaps that is a question for someone with some legal expertise.
I get what you're saying, but we can't be so concerned about that when the goal is to protect what is essentially a moral belief system, and can only be protected if placed under the realm of religion. Besides, when you start to study religion in depth (my BA is in Religious Studies and I've spent more than two decades studying it as one of my passions and from a secular perspective, too), you begin to realize that, no, not all of religion is evil. Much of religion has preserved information that would have been destroyed by the state otherwise.
It's a means to an end. The fact is, you can preserve beliefs and ideas through the right to religious belief, and we should take advantage of that. I think it's great you started that work and should consider continuing.
I do realize that not all of religion is evil, but there is a very long history of religion being twisted to serve the hateful and evil impulses of people. The systematic destruction of all the accumulated written knowledge of the Mayan people was carried out by Dominicans, Augustinians, and other sects of the Roman Catholic Church. Then there was the Crusades, and the Jihads, and on and on. As much as anything, I just worry that identity has become poisonous force in the world.
On the other hand, as you point out, if there is a mechanism in place to create legal protection for a shared set of values, it is probably worth pursuing- particularly given the forces at play in our country presently!
That's a fair point. And with the organization of any moral system, some corruption almost always seems to follow... I hate to think of what that would look like from a vegan perspective. (My imagination is running wild.)
The first rebuttal asks if legal protections for veganism as a belief would force others to become vegan. Consider swapping the belief system for a religion: Would legal protections for Mormons force others to become Mormon? See how silly that sounds?
Legal protections for Mormons, along with every other established religion, exist in the U.S. for a good reason. Freedom of Religion is an important right that even most atheists can get behind. It establishes that no individual can be forced to adopt the beliefs of the state and that each individual is free to have their own worldview and religious practices, except for physical abuse of any kind, not protected on religious grounds.
These protections ensure that people are also protected from discrimination. If someone is an observant Muslim serving a prison sentence, the law would have to observe their religious beliefs about eating pork. It would be against the law to force a Muslim prisoner to eat pork. Legally, the prison would have to provide non-pork options. (I am no lawyer, but it seems this would be true.)
I would like to see the same respect given to vegans, who do not belong to an established, organized belief system, but very much equal the sentiment in regards to moral beliefs and practices. I don't want to join a religion just to have the same protections as one who belongs to a religion. I see my belief that "animals are not food" as being equal to the Jewish Kosher Laws, Muslim Halal, Mormons' beliefs regarding coffee and alcohol, etc.
Interesting discussion.
Thank you for your comment. I appreciated it because it raises a valuable question about belief systems and legal protections. Just out of curiosity, do you think ethical veganism deserves the same kind of legal respect as religious dietary restrictions, like keeping Kosher or Halal? I ask because, for many of us, “animals are not food” isn’t just a preference, it’s a deeply held moral conviction. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Yes, I 100% believe it should get the same respect as Kosher and Halal beliefs. Because it is a moralistic belief. Which should fall under the same category as religious protections. Meaning, I don't have the right to push my ideology on you, but you must respect my right to have a different moral belief system than you. I don't know how this could work without a legally recognized belief system, though. I've thought about this before. Wondered if I were to convert to Buddhism or some other religion that promotes the abstinence of meat, I would be protected. But it just seems so silly, and also disrespectful, to do something like that.
Absolutely agree with your thoughtful take. Ethical veganism is a deeply held moral belief, and it deserves the same respect and legal protections as other belief systems like Kosher or Halal. You are right, it is not about pushing beliefs on others, but about securing the right to live in alignment with your conscience. I appreciate your honesty about not wanting to use religion as a loophole. That shows real integrity. Hopefully, the law continues to evolve to reflect that moral convictions, even outside of traditional religion, matter just as much.
Thank you for your reply, sharing your thoughts, and engaging in this helpful discussion! I can see it happening one day. The ironic thing is, I don't like labels or identity politics. But I always say, I adopt the "vegan" label only because I have to cut to the chase with people, so they know where I stand (usually it's more like "where I sit," since I'm almost always at a restaurant when this has to happen 😆).
Really - such a nice discussion! Thanks!
Very interesting.
No on that. My diet is vegan, and I cherish our earth, but things are difficult enough without creating another tribal religion.
That’s a fair point. Veganism can be deeply personal without becoming a dogma. For many, it’s about conscience and compassion, not identity or ideology. The more we keep the focus on kindness and sustainability, the more inclusive the movement becomes.
yes bc it requires you deny the reality that we need animal foods to survive
hope your b12 levels are okay <3
Yes, veganism should be a protected belief because it's ethical and evidence-based, unlike your fantasy that humans need animal foods. We get B12 without killing anyone. You get yours from supplements in animal feed. Enjoy your irony with that steak.
lol there's been no society in history that's been vegan - or wanted to be vegan. animal foods have long been cherished for their nutrient density.
when you include animal foods, you don't have to supplement creatine, b12 taurine, iron, d3, iodine, zinc, etc.
if a diet requires supplementation via modern chemistry, is that a good diet? one that you think aligns with the optimal human living?
No society had electric cars either, until we knew better. Tradition isn't proof of truth. Modern diets require B12 because soil is depleted and animals are supplemented first. Vegans just skip the middleman. If you can meet all needs without killing, why wouldn’t you? Ethics evolve.
I reached the conclusion many years ago that veganism, for most of us, constitutes a deeply-held spiritual belief, and needs to be a legally protected belief system, and have gone as far as working to write a sort of founding document delineating the philosophical/spiritual basis for such an identity. I concluded that it would need to be registered as a religious organization in the United States in order to be properly protected, and have explored that process, but eventually concluded that religion seems to be one of the fundamental driving forces of all the hatred and violence in the world, and a religious identity might likely make vegans the target of evangelical ("Christian") violence.
Thank you for sharing such a powerful and deeply considered perspective. I'm really intrigued by your idea of a founding document for veganism as a protected belief. Do you think there's a way to secure those legal protections without tying veganism to a religious label, maybe as an ethical or philosophical system instead?
I don't know if legal protections could be secured without categorizing those beliefs as a religion. Religion has a sort of privileged place in our constitution, a sort of magical untouchable status. Perhaps that is a question for someone with some legal expertise.
I get what you're saying, but we can't be so concerned about that when the goal is to protect what is essentially a moral belief system, and can only be protected if placed under the realm of religion. Besides, when you start to study religion in depth (my BA is in Religious Studies and I've spent more than two decades studying it as one of my passions and from a secular perspective, too), you begin to realize that, no, not all of religion is evil. Much of religion has preserved information that would have been destroyed by the state otherwise.
It's a means to an end. The fact is, you can preserve beliefs and ideas through the right to religious belief, and we should take advantage of that. I think it's great you started that work and should consider continuing.
Thanks for the encouragement.
I do realize that not all of religion is evil, but there is a very long history of religion being twisted to serve the hateful and evil impulses of people. The systematic destruction of all the accumulated written knowledge of the Mayan people was carried out by Dominicans, Augustinians, and other sects of the Roman Catholic Church. Then there was the Crusades, and the Jihads, and on and on. As much as anything, I just worry that identity has become poisonous force in the world.
On the other hand, as you point out, if there is a mechanism in place to create legal protection for a shared set of values, it is probably worth pursuing- particularly given the forces at play in our country presently!
That's a fair point. And with the organization of any moral system, some corruption almost always seems to follow... I hate to think of what that would look like from a vegan perspective. (My imagination is running wild.)